20g vs 28g

Open discussion on all firearms, firearms modification, and gunsmithing.

Moderator: hawglips

manchap
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:19 pm

20g vs 28g

Postby manchap » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:57 pm

20g vs 28g for TSS not looking at the cost of each one but which is perfered cal for Tss , now i am looking at Pass shooting geese and large duck, Even in my 12g ive redced the loads to 7/8 of 1550fs BBB and hey do well on large geese .

But i would like a small bore BPS ?

Many thanks



Dave in AZ
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: 20g vs 28g

Postby Dave in AZ » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:19 pm

(edit... this went long enough and I wanted to add a picture, so posted this up at my blog with pic of various load options: https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/tss-20ga ... -platform/ )

manchap, for your quick answer I would say 20ga. That assumes pass shooting large ducks and geese, and using a BPS. Either gauge would work fine, for you it comes down to the fact that the BPS 28ga is built on a 20ga frame and weighs the same as the 20ga within an ounce. In that case, you might as well get the 20ga gun which gives you more load options (Hal has more 20ga loads I believe). You also get a more viable Steel/TSS duplex platform, and of course for ducks/geese if you went to bismuth the increased payload wouldn't hurt.

Here's the more generic answer if someone else is looking:
Which is the best platform for shooting TSS, 20ga or 28ga?
Depends on what you end up doing with TSS, and what your target is (how many pellets you need/want in the payload). The wad choices actually make 28ga have MORE volume to fill than the 20ga actually, and filling up excess volume is your issue with pure TSS. AND, unless you're going to do the load development yourself (very expensive and time consuming), you are limited to loads you can get-- which so far as I know is only Hal's proprietary loads he exposes to customers on a non-distribution basis.

1. Economy path: If you are mixing it with steel shot, replacing some of the steel with TSS to get increased pellet counts, then the larger shells will help you. Somewhere I posted a ton of calculations on 20ga steel/tss loads, with various ranges and pellet counts for different CONSEP targets all done up.
In this setup, TSS #9.5 matches steel #B ballistically, at 1485fps, 1000'msl, 32F you get:
- ducks: 1.5" gel penetration; 65 yards
- geese: 2.25" gel 39.5 yards
- large geese 2.5" gel 32 yards
In a 20ga 3" shell, you can do 1oz total: 7/8oz #B steel, 1/8oz #9.5 TSS, total pellets 128. This is a hefty goose load with decent range, most guys use the 2.25" gel to guesstimate lethality on geese.

2. Pure TSS/performance path: Hal is the man on this, he probably has shot more pure TSS than anyone in the world, as well as done all the loading/testing for fit and pressures and patterns. So he'll be able to tell you about patterns. I don't do the pure TSS myself, but I'm not shooting turkey where I think it really makes sense, I'm doing 99% ducks where number of shots and the decent lethality of steel subgauge loads already, make TSS a marginal prospect.
-- Both gauges can hold 1-1/8oz
-- Both gauges have developed loads by Hal spanning 9/16oz to 9/8oz, to cover the whole gamut ducks to turkeys, and one of those loads would work for your gun and target
-- Both gauges deliver nice patterns, go look at some of the hundred or so Hal has posted here.
-- There are 3-4 loads in both gauges I'd use for ducks or geese (3/4oz and less). My data-dump from Hal is several years old, but I've seen 10 loads in 20ga >= 7/8oz including 2 steel/tss duplex, and just 3 loads in 28ga (7/8, 1, 9/8oz). I'm sure he has more loads now, and he may have not passed some of his heavier loads to me as I told him my target was ducks.

3. Load Development potential.
I would say that it could go either way... the 28ga is the smaller hull and thus preferred by me, BUT 28ga doesn't have the wad choices or spacers that the 20ga has! So this ends up making the 28ga volume to fill often LARGER than the 20ga!
20 ga - Even HW13 in a 2.75" 20ga hull requires more spacers than I want to put in a load, and 7/8oz of #6 gives 166 pellets. So you already have plenty of payload space in the 20ga 2.75", now you are interested in filling that space up! There are several tungsten-capable wads in 20ga that help this. The CSD20 is what I use, holds 7/8oz steel almost. Needs cork/felt fillers. However, the PT2090 wad is a 3/4oz steel wad, very thick though so great for TSS, and has the smallest volume to fill. IMO (and I think Hal's), this is the best wad for 20ga TSS. It is now back in stock at BPI... for a while it looked like it's availability was done, so I think Hal was trying to work up some loads using alternative wads. There is also the PT2091 for slightly larger payloads than the 2090, but it's thinner and larger two strikes against it re TSS.

28ga- The only wad choices are the TPS28, and there are a few HV28 loads with a mylar wrap to protect more. TPS28 is really just PERFECT for shooting HW13 in the 28ga-- it perfectly fits a full 1oz of #4 for geese, or #6 with a felt/cork for ducks and geese to 39 yards or so. But I wouldn't ever shoot 1oz of TSS at ducks or geese myself! That would be 433 pellets in #9.5, or 251 pellets of #8 reaching out to 66 yards for geese. So now you have to fill up that.

For ducks, 1/2oz of TSS #9.5 is plenty-- it gives 216 pellets with lethality out to 65 yards or so. On geese, with that many pellets you'd absolutely be looking at increased head/neck hits, remember a normal load for geese is 55 pellets or so to achieve CONSEP numbers. Head and neck is much less than 2.25" penetration needed (body), so I think using 2.25" penetration to guesstimate lethality ranges is conservative-- and so you get an awesome goose load to 39 yards or more too!

For geese, 1/2oz of TSS is plenty also. #9 shot gives 178 pellets reading 2.25" gel penetration out to 48 yards, #8 gives 125 pellets to 66 yards. It's reaallly hard to get yourself to believe those super numbers from small pellets, so a lot of guys use #7 which would give 137 pellets in 3/4oz to 85 yards.



manchap
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:19 pm

Re: 20g vs 28g

Postby manchap » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:28 am

Wow many thanks for that made it easier for me to chose now think ill go 20g , I did also contemplated geeting another 10g and just stick with steel but i like small bores .



hawglips
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: 20g vs 28g

Postby hawglips » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:24 am

I've developed a lot of loads in both gauges, and I actually believe load development is easier in the 28 ga than the 20 ga - particularly for non-turkey loads. The available wads that handle TSS well are a little better than those for the 20 ga, IMO. Between the SG, the SGII and the HV28 - to go along with the TPS, you have most all needs covered very nicely.

But the 20 ga being bigger will have more capacity. Wads are always an issue, and for waterfowl loads, I have resorted mostly to a double wad column. If you go with the popular steel wads, you end up having to otherwise use a lot of filler.



manchap
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:19 pm

Re: 20g vs 28g

Postby manchap » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:10 am

Many thanks




Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests