Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

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DagSwane
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:29 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby DagSwane » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:10 am

https://hdsupplysolutions.com/p/ridgid- ... gJs__D_BwE

This works well for evenly cutting crimps, and can be used for other projects at home.

The ITX10 2’s is a goose hammer. I have a few pounds left, but mostly shoot 4’s. The TSS 6’s will also be overkill for geese, and any duplex with Steel BB/TSS will get you close. Most guys and companies have a 1oz steel/ 0.25oz TSS option in a 3” hull. You can scale that back to a more even ratio of 0.6-0.8 oz (average for stack height/pellet count) steel and 0.2-0.3oz (TSS/HTL) to take up the space. Flax seed, beads, wax, etc under or over the shot to perfect crimp. Those unskived Hulls will still fold crimp, or you can simply roll crimp them. Steel load data around 1400-1450fps is a good starting point and plenty fast for large steel (or any steel really).

I just loaded up some repurposed Turkey loads that were 12gauge 3.5” federal hull, 1 7/8oz hw15, flight stopper wad, 50.20grain factory powder (looks like Longshot), federal 209A Primer. I loaded 100pellets of Copper Plated Steel BB’s (1.20 oz roughly) and 42pellets of HW15 6’s (0.30oz approximate; waiting on TSS 7’s to arrive) and 9grains of wax beads/buffer to take up space. I added 32 pellets more over all to my original load of 1 3/8 steel BB’s in this combination. I plan to pattern this 12gauge load today in the new Browning Maxus 2, Factory Mod. I’ll be comparing it to Boss Bismuth 1’s, and Kent 3.5” Bismuth BB’s

Earlier in the year I sent off a 10gauge load with the same parameters, average Pressure was around 6,200, and velocity was around 1325fps averages (I have data with a similar combination and bismuth shot as well). Those 10gauge loads cycled in gas gun throughout the season (cold January hunts) and killed large, late season geese. I talked with a few guys around the country who run pressure testing and all were on the same page that in keeping all parts original from the factory and reducing overall payload ( 1 7/8 oz down to 1 1/2 or 1 3/8oz) will be in safe operating pressures (10gauge went from 2oz HW15 to 1 5/8oz steel).

So in this concept, you can take factory steel BB loads, and simply swap in equal weight of TSS 6’s as well. The Federal TSS/steel BlackCloud Load is exactly that. They took their black cloud load, removed some steel by weight, and added tss by weight. They offer a steel bb/tss 7 combo and a 3steel/9tss combo, 1450fps.

Good luck with the load development. Keep us posted!



DagSwane
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:29 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby DagSwane » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:21 pm

Handloads of the BBsteel / HW15 6’s duplex, 40 yards off hand, Browning Maxus 2, Carlson’s Cremator LongRange (improved mod) choke.
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DagSwane
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:29 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby DagSwane » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:23 pm

The spread of the BB steel and HW15 look very similar to the patterns I’ve had with Older Apex steel 2 (1oz) / tss 9 (0.25oz) loads.



jmyner99er
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:58 pm

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby jmyner99er » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:02 pm

DagSwane wrote:The ITX10 2’s is a goose hammer. I have a few pounds left, but mostly shoot 4’s.

Are you using 2¾ or 3"?

DagSwane wrote:Those unskived Hulls will still fold crimp, or you can simply roll crimp them.


I didn't pull the trigger on those hulls thinking there is a reason they are still in stock?... I want to fold crimp my shells, I do have a hull skiver tool though.

Speaking on crimps, what is preferred 6pt or 8pt? Why would someone choose one over the other?

Whats the consensus on gaep, should I buy this?


DagSwane wrote:Browning Maxus 2, Factory Mod.

Chokes, It seems guys are using cylinder or skeet compared to im or full. I guess I'll just have to setup some rosin paper at like 60 yards and see what it looks like?



DagSwane
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:29 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby DagSwane » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:01 pm

jmyner99er wrote:
DagSwane wrote:The ITX10 2’s is a goose hammer. I have a few pounds left, but mostly shoot 4’s.

Are you using 2¾ or 3"?

DagSwane wrote:Those unskived Hulls will still fold crimp, or you can simply roll crimp them.


I didn't pull the trigger on those hulls thinking there is a reason they are still in stock?... I want to fold crimp my shells, I do have a hull skiver tool though.

Speaking on crimps, what is preferred 6pt or 8pt? Why would someone choose one over the other?

Whats the consensus on gaep, should I buy this?


DagSwane wrote:Browning Maxus 2, Factory Mod.

Chokes, It seems guys are using cylinder or skeet compared to im or full. I guess I'll just have to setup some rosin paper at like 60 yards and see what it looks like?


2.75” Hulls. I think inventory for Fio has had a shipment overall to the US, so you’re seeing Fio shells and components in stock. Everyone has given me advise to RTO/GAEP finish the Hulls. If the original hull was an 8-point fold (gold medal grand, AA, STS, Challenger), I do an 8. Most hunting loads are a 6-point fold. I haven’t found much significant information on a 6 or 8 effecting ballistics or pressures. Someone on another forum did some field results and patterns, but the numbers weren’t too far apart. With the BB steel and distance of 40+ yards, I like to shoot a Mod or improved Mod choke. I shoot more bimsuth or #2 steel than anything else, so Improved Mod is my preferred choke. Pure Tungsten 15/18 will pattern very tight at distance, the BB steel helps to open up the pattern.



DagSwane
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:29 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby DagSwane » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:13 pm

There’s patterns with 1.25oz B&P Steel 2’s, 1.25oz HeviMetal SpeedBall 1’s, 1.5oz Kent Bismuth BB’s, Handloads of 1 3/8 oz Steel 1’s, and 1.5oz Boss Bismuth 1’s at 40yards, Improved Mod Choke.
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paulinkansas
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:28 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby paulinkansas » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:39 am

jmyner99er wrote:On the subject of putting something between the powder and the wad, what's the purpose of a gas seal?


It's to raise the column stack in order to make a proper crimp. Remember, this is a 2.75" wad in a 3" hull. Once you load a few shells you'll see that everything doesn't quite fit perfectly.



DagSwane
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:29 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby DagSwane » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:42 am

Some tss 7’s came in, 0.25oz is approximate 50 pellets, 2.275grain approximate per pellet. So loaded 1.25oz Copper Plated Steel BB (100) and 0.25oz of TSS 7’s (50). I’ll put these in paper Saturday. These are loaded with the TSS on the bottom. Some have wax beads/buffer in the base, and some have it above the shot. 8-9grain in total.



DagSwane
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:29 am

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby DagSwane » Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:43 pm

DagSwane wrote:Some tss 7’s came in, 0.25oz is approximate 50 pellets, 2.275grain approximate per pellet. So loaded 1.25oz Copper Plated Steel BB (100) and 0.25oz of TSS 7’s (50). I’ll put these in paper Saturday. These are loaded with the TSS on the bottom. Some have wax beads/buffer in the base, and some have it above the shot. 8-9grain in total.

My count was off a bit on the copper coated steel bb’s I should have measured as “B’s”. Here’s the pattern with 1.25oz of Steel B’s and 0.25oz TSS 7’s, off hand, 40 yards TSS under the B shot, and wax beads (9grain) under the shot column. Browning Maxus 2, Carlson Cremator LongRange (improved mod) off hand. Also some handloads of 1 3/8oz steel 1’s as a comparison, same set up:
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Dave in AZ
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: Looking for some direction on waterfowl duplex

Postby Dave in AZ » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:12 pm

Wow. Both nice patterns, first one is.great!




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