Weight questions...

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kculbert2
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:43 am

Weight questions...

Postby kculbert2 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:17 pm

So, I'm feeling pretty dumb right now. Perhaps a more intelligent person could help me understand. If a tss18 #9 pellet carries the same energy as a steel #2, shouldn't those two pellets weigh about the same? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way? Because my #9 tss18 pellets are nowhere near as heavy as my #2 steel. If someone could explain this, I would appreciate it. Thanks!



Dave in AZ
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: Weight questions...

Postby Dave in AZ » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:15 pm

No. Their energy constantly changes as they slow down. Never equal but a microsecond in time. At range, the retained speed of the denser material makes it have better energy. Really, who cares about the energy, that is a weak metric to use. Penetration is what matters. Smaller frontal area means small pellet penetrate more.
Think throwing balloon vs golfball. Think arrow Penetration vs baseball.



continental shooter
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:03 am
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Weight questions...

Postby continental shooter » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:09 pm

hey Dave,

would penetration not be directly proportional to downrange energy x mass?

In this respect, whilst the high density of TSS requires less energy (and volume) to achieve the same penetration of a bigger steel pellet, I think energy plays a big factor in helping penetration through the different mediums.

Effectively this is what is studied in terminal ballistic and is often too disregarded although I believe is an integral - and important- part of the ballistic cycle



Dave in AZ
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: Weight questions...

Postby Dave in AZ » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:15 pm

Sure energy can be looked at as a factor. But...
KE = 1/2 m v*v
Mass increases as the cube of radius, spherical volume
Frontal surface area increases as the square of pellet radius, and is directly proportional to penetration in a linear relation.

All those change in various relationships as pellet size and speed change. Pellet energy is not the best metric when comparing across different densities, which is what people always want to do. Sure, one material density It's great to estimate penetration, but it is poor to use to compare diff density pellets. Far better is to just calculate the expected ballistic gel penetration and use that for direct comparisons amongst your choices.
Since pellet energy at any range is a derived calculated number, and :roll: is not observable or verifiable to users, why not go one more step in the calc to gel penetration, which is absolutely the most directly verifiable number for all users, anyone can shoot a gel block and see it. And for sure penetration is the most directly tied to duck lethality of any parameter. Army ballistics lab long ago verified the temporary cavity from projectile enery was not causal for lethality, and that wound channel depth and size, the permanent wound cavity, was by far the most directly tied to lethality.

So I don't like using energy as a discussion parameter, because someone always messes it up comparing apples to oranges, diff density pellets, and this is all waaaaaaaay too much to type and explain on every derailed thread ;)



hawglips
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Weight questions...

Postby hawglips » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:12 am

Penetration is the key for our practical fowl hunting purposes....




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