Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

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poorcountrypreacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:21 pm

Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

Postby poorcountrypreacher » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:40 pm

Hey Hal, and anyone else reading,

I didn't know this site existed, and happened to find it looking for some load info for a late season dove load. I usually just use a 12 gauge gun on late season doves, but as I get older it sure would be nice to use one of my light 20s.

There is not much load data available for a 1.25 oz 20 gauge load. About the only loads I've found are based on either CSD or PT wads, and they are a lot more expensive than something like a Federal or Remington wad. Anyone got any suggestions for a 1.25 oz 20 gauge wad? Thanks for any ideas.

I've been using Hal's tss turkey loads for 10 seasons now. If you haven't tried them, you need to.



Dave in AZ
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

Postby Dave in AZ » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:23 pm

1995 Alliant booklet
20ga Fed 3"
5/4oz lead, 1185 fps Fed209 <<<NOT 209A!!!!!!
Rem SP20 OR Win WAA20F1 wad
25.5gr BlueDot, 10600 or 10400 psi

Same wads used in numerous 9/8oz lead loads in 2.75" hulls listed.

20ga 3" Win-Western AA type (old CF) hulls
5/4oz lead 1135 to 1240 fps
Win209 primer
WWAA20F1 wad 23gr BlueDot 10200 psi
SP20 24gr-25.0gr BlueDot, 10200-10900 psi or 34.5gr 2400 at 9600 psi

Download the old books at www.castboolits.com



poorcountrypreacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:21 pm

Re: Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

Postby poorcountrypreacher » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:23 am

Thanks Dave. Those are wads that probably hold one ounce, so I guess the extra shot just rides over the top? Do you have any idea if loads with so much lead above the shotcup will still pattern decently?

Thanks



hawglips
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

Postby hawglips » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:23 am

Steve, good to see you here!

I have never reloaded and shot any 1.25 oz 20 ga lead loads (always lighter), but Hodgdon's site has several listed (these are all using a 3" Fed hull).

Hodgdon HS-7 Fed. 209A Rem. RXP20 25.5 11,000 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon 800-X Fed. 209A Rem. SP 20 17.5 11,500 PSI 1,100
Hodgdon 800-X Fed. 209A WAA20F1 18.0 11,700 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon 800-X Rem. 209P Rem. SP 20 19.5 11,400 PSI 1,150
Hodgdon 800-X Rem. 209P WAA20F1 20.0 11,000 PSI 1,175
Hodgdon 800-X Win. 209 Rem. SP 20 18.0 11,400 PSI 1,100
Hodgdon 800-X Win. 209 WAA20F1 18.5 11,400 PSI 1,125
Hodgdon Longshot CCI 209M Fed. 20S1 20.2 11,300 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot CCI 209M Rem. RXP20 21.0 11,000 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot CCI 209M WAA20F1 20.3 11,400 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Fed. 209A Fed. 20S1 20.2 11,700 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Fed. 209A Rem. RXP20 20.9 11,300 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Fed. 209A WAA20F1 20.2 11,500 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Rem. 209P Fed. 20S1 20.5 11,600 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Rem. 209P Rem. RXP20 21.5 10,400 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Rem. 209P WAA20F1 19.9 11,200 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Win. 209 Fed. 20S1 20.4 10,300 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Win. 209 Rem. RXP20 21.3 10,600 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Win. 209 WAA20F1 21.2 10,300 PSI 1,185
Hodgdon Longshot Win. 209 WAA20F1 22.2 11,500 PSI 1,240

They also have some data using Winchester and Remington hulls.



Dave in AZ
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

Postby Dave in AZ » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:08 pm

poorcountrypreacher wrote:Thanks Dave. Those are wads that probably hold one ounce, so I guess the extra shot just rides over the top? Do you have any idea if loads with so much lead above the shotcup will still pattern decently?

Thanks


Well, like Hal I haven't loaded that much in a 20ga ever. However, they used to have the entire shot column scrubbing the barrel, and more and more folks in England are using fibre wads again, and get fine patterns. With just a bit of shot above the shotcup, I'd guess that some of it will setback into the shotcup (steel shot sets back 1/4" or more, and it's harder!), and only the pellets touching the barrel walls will scrub. All the pellets will help fill out the pattern more than a 1oz load, though sure some will be flyers early on-- that's OK. I'd guess you'll get fuller patterns than 1 oz or 9/8oz loads, which will let you use a bit larger shot and shoot slightly further.

Late season doves. Probably like most of my dove hunting actually-- I don't have a dog, and I walk around the desert 5 or 6 miles and "walk them up"-- they're in the grass eating seeds or stones, and fly up about 30 yards away from me. So most all my shots are 34-50 yards anyways.
I also have places I can pass shoot, and permission at two nearby dairies where I can bag my 15 dove and 6 or 7 eurasian dove each day, in about 30 minutes. But I like a bit more exercise usually, so generally would rather walk the desert.
I've found that #8 is too small for good kills at that range, I get a lot of wounded birds-- I pretty much end up wringing 75% of their necks. I like 7.5 or 7 shot the best at that range.
Anyways, my point-- I use a 16ga and 9/8oz 7.5 loads and like that load the best. For 20ga, I do fine with 7/8oz of #8 but just limit myself to 40 yds. For 28ga, I shoot 7/8oz or 1oz Rio loads often in 7.5 shot.

I'm alllll about stretching the limits of what any particular gauge can do-- I have zero problems with using 28ga for ducks with duplex loads, or shooting 1oz loads for quail and dove at distance. I'm just surprised anyone would want to use 5/4oz on a dove, I don't even use that on ducks or geese heh. I mean for SURE I'm going to load some up now that you've got me thinking about it, but I already predict it's gonna pound my shoulder-- I usually shoot 20 to 22 shots for 15 dove, less if I'm pass shooting them close in, and that's a lot of 5/4oz loads! So anyways, I'd be interested in your thoughts on stepping up to that much shot-- what size pellet, what ranges, what choke and how many pellets in a 30" pattern kind of thing? Just interesting to me. I do know I always did better with 9/8oz than 1oz of #7.5 or even #6 in this type of desert long range shooting.



poorcountrypreacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:21 pm

Re: Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

Postby poorcountrypreacher » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:44 pm

Thanks guys, for taking time to share your thoughts on the subject.

I have done the majority of my wing shooting with 12 gauge guns, mostly sxs guns in recent years. I have used a Beretta 626 as my main dove gun, but have also used a 425 recently. The 425 had f/m fixed chokes and patterned so tightly that I couldn't use it with regular ammo. I loaded some Polywad loads with an ounce under the cup and .25 over it. That opened patterns to approximately m/ic and made the gun usable, but those shells are a lot of trouble to load. I had Mike Orlen open it up to m/ic a couple months back and it's a much more usable gun now.

I have a CZ 202 in 20 gauge that I like in early season, but I get a lot of cripples with one ounce loads. I have also gotten a lot of cripples with 1 and 1/8 oz 12 gauge loads. I grew up shooting 1.25 oz 12 gauge loads of #8 shot. My father bought a Honey Bair loader in the mid 60s and that was the only load we loaded. It was noticeably better than the 1 and 1/8 oz factory loads. I got away from loading my own for a few years and never was satisfied with my dove shooting. I have felt a lot more effective since going back to my hand loads.

I am obviously not as good a wing shot as you are and feel like I need the extra shot in the pattern. I think most people do. I notice other folks hunting with 20 gauge guns and I see a lot of misses and crippled birds. I will usually take 25-40 shells to get a limit of 15 doves, but we seldom have good hunts and you have to either take long shots or not shoot very often.

It seems that Fio and others produce some really good 1.25 oz 20 gauge loads that are marketed for pheasant hunters, but they are expensive. And I don't think the wads they use are available to handloaders. I was just interested in trying to produce 12 gauge results with a 20 gauge gun. No reason other than I wanna try. The 20 gauge CZ weighs only a few ounces less than my Berettas so the difference in recoil should not be a big deal.

Thanks again for your ideas.

Steve



poorcountrypreacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:21 pm

Re: Wads for 20 gauge 1.25 oz lead

Postby poorcountrypreacher » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:46 am

The Advantages manual had only 3 recipes for 20 gauge 1.25 oz loads, but I had the components for one of them and decided to try it. It uses Steel powder and the PT2092 wad with a listed velocity of 1250. I shot one over the chrony and got 1267, so I thought this might be a great load for late season doves.

But then I patterned it and was disappointed. With a modified choke at 40 yards, it put only 34% of the load inside a 30" circle and that is obviously nowhere close to modified performance. I shot a second shell and was even worse. It was 92 degrees, so I tried a 12 gauge 1.25 oz load for comparison and got a 57% score; very close to what it is supposed to be.

There may be a load that will shoot around 60% with 1.25 oz loads in this gun, but this isn't it. I may shoot one through a full choke, but I don't think I'm gonna ever be satisfied with this load. Conventional wisdom is that you can't do what I want with a 20 gauge, and maybe it is correct. I wanted to find a recipe based on Lil Gun, but haven't found one.

I just thought I'd let you guys know what I had tried; thanks for your help.




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