Bulge

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Fishh2o
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Bulge

Postby Fishh2o » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:26 pm

Guys I wanted your input here. Theses are all Federal GM once fired hull and one of the hulls had a bulge in it. They all weight out the same but it seems like the interior dimensions of this hull might have been smaller.
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Roll with it. If you stay above 55 the wheel wont fall off.

arkbulldog
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Re: Bulge

Postby arkbulldog » Wed May 24, 2017 7:40 pm

I have had that before. One out of every five loads or so would bulge at the bottom. I load with a MEC 600 Jr. Fixed it by raising the crimp punch slightly.



Dave in AZ
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Re: Bulge

Postby Dave in AZ » Mon May 29, 2017 12:49 am

A blog I wrote on fixing that while loading.
Anti-“hull-bulge” bushing: how to stuff 1-1/8oz of #2 steel into a 2.75″ 12ga without buckling.

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/anti-hull-bulge-bushing-how-to-stuff-1-18oz-of-2-steel-into-a-2-75-12ga-without-buckling/



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Fishh2o
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Re: Bulge

Postby Fishh2o » Tue May 30, 2017 11:01 pm

Dave this post was about a month before I read yours! I haven't had any since but i also found out my drill press was 1/8th inch off. So when I ran my gape finishing die i was applying just a little too much pressure.


Roll with it. If you stay above 55 the wheel wont fall off.

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Ironhead74
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Re: Bulge

Postby Ironhead74 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:29 pm

Question for you Fish, do you just precrimp then run the Gaep down on it or do you do a final crimp then Gaep? Just got my 10 and 12 finishers from Solway but haven't had a chance to mess with them yet. My 28 should arrive at the FFL dealer tomorrow so gonna have to order one for it soon lol.



Dave in AZ
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Re: Bulge

Postby Dave in AZ » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:20 pm

Not sure how Fish does it, but the biggest proponents of it I know are LostKnife and 3200man at DHC (signed up here too but don't visit often). Both of those guys have said in various postings at DHC that they put a final crimp on hulls, so they're totally usable as is, and then they hit them with their Gaep dies to put a finish on them.

You've bought the Gaep dies, so I'm pretty sure you know that there are two different finish die versions, but just to be sure since you asked this question... one set of Gaep dies are meant to take a pre-crimped tent-looking shell down to a final finished shell-- this is how European loading machines work, their final crimp is done with a spinning finish die. But ANOTHER different set of Gaep dies is marketed to US reloaders, the "BN" series, meant to just put a rounded tapered lip onto already finished shells. THAT die is what pretty much 99% of all posters I've ever read are using.

I sometimes do the same thing, but just hit a finished shell with an RTO (roll-crimp dies, "Roll Turn Over") from Precision or BPI-- it does the same thing as the Gaep, tightens up the existing crimp and rounds the top edge. However, I have stopped doing it, as the shells I have sent in for testing have returned significantly higher pressures, 1500psi or so, when this has been done. A deep crimp (or Gaep finished) vs. a 0.055" depth crimp is probably the single biggest thing you can do to change shell pressures, way more than folks give credit for. It's for this reason that you'll almost always find post from Lost and 3200man and others that Gaep, recommending you drop the powder 1-2 grains from recipe-- and they still get the expected speeds when doing that.
Good luck, hope that was helpful and apologies if you knew all that, just making sure!
Dave



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Ironhead74
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Re: Bulge

Postby Ironhead74 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:30 pm

Dave,
Thanks for the reply. I am now confused as I thought the 2 different heads were for star crimp and the other did a RTO style crimp. The 2 I have are BN2's so if I have to crimp than gaep no big deal. The 2 loads I currently use are Chris's HG load for 12 and a 10 gauge load Kevin (solway gunner) send me a couple years ago when I decided to reload for my 10. I have seen Chris post he finishes with the gaep and I know Kevin uses them also since he sells them lol.

This is from Gaep's website (from Italy). 2 are for paper, 1 is for slugs and the 2 that are for plastic "shot" hulls say for plastic case star crimp closure and plastic hulls for round edge closure. By round edge closure I assumed RTO.

STP brass roll crimper for plastic case star crimp closure
OTC Brass roll crimper paper hulls for round crimp closure.
STC Brass roll crimper paper hulls for star crimp closure.
OTP Brass roll crimper plastic hulls for round edge closure.
BOP Brass roll crimper for Gualandi Palla Slug.

BN1/BN2/BN3/BN4 Brass roll crimper for crimp closure.



Dave in AZ
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Re: Bulge

Postby Dave in AZ » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:20 pm

Not 100% sure what their other ones do, but realize that Euro loaders don't work anything like ours-- they don't really "RE-load" shells like we do, they "Hand Load". That is, they pretty much all buy new primed hulls never used and load them. Their machines also give a final crimp via a spinning die that works like our RTO dies, but they apply it to a pre-crimped hull. Here's a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gG_cwX9HQI

So GAEP is a main Itialian reloading company. So far as I know, the only dies they make that have anything to do with the way American loaders work (MEC, PW etc.) with our press-down final crimps, are their BN series. If it works on a pre-crimp also, that's great, and it well might-- don't see why it wouldn't press things into their final form. But all the videos I've seen of it have been applied to an already complete shell to "spin form" the existing final crimp.

They sure do look nice, those Gaep crimps!



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Fishh2o
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Re: Bulge

Postby Fishh2o » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:30 am

Ironhead74 wrote:Question for you Fish, do you just precrimp then run the Gaep down on it or do you do a final crimp then Gaep? Just got my 10 and 12 finishers from Solway but haven't had a chance to mess with them yet. My 28 should arrive at the FFL dealer tomorrow so gonna have to order one for it soon lol.



Sorry for the late reply but yes I crimp then go back and do a finish gape crimp.


Roll with it. If you stay above 55 the wheel wont fall off.

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Fishh2o
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Re: Bulge

Postby Fishh2o » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:34 am

Ironhead74 wrote:Dave,
Thanks for the reply. I am now confused as I thought the 2 different heads were for star crimp and the other did a RTO style crimp. The 2 I have are BN2's so if I have to crimp than gaep no big deal. The 2 loads I currently use are Chris's HG load for 12 and a 10 gauge load Kevin (solway gunner) send me a couple years ago when I decided to reload for my 10. I have seen Chris post he finishes with the gaep and I know Kevin uses them also since he sells them lol.

This is from Gaep's website (from Italy). 2 are for paper, 1 is for slugs and the 2 that are for plastic "shot" hulls say for plastic case star crimp closure and plastic hulls for round edge closure. By round edge closure I assumed RTO.

STP brass roll crimper for plastic case star crimp closure
OTC Brass roll crimper paper hulls for round crimp closure.
STC Brass roll crimper paper hulls for star crimp closure.
OTP Brass roll crimper plastic hulls for round edge closure.
BOP Brass roll crimper for Gualandi Palla Slug.

BN1/BN2/BN3/BN4 Brass roll crimper for crimp closure.




So Gape has several different crimpers for each stage.. So to get a 6 point crimp you would have 3 o 4 stations. The final station is the finishing crimp. So you do your final crimp on your normal loader and use a drill press to run the finisher.

Hope that helps.


Roll with it. If you stay above 55 the wheel wont fall off.


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